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Gear Workshop The Gear Workshop forum is for the discussion of homemade backpacking gear, gear modifications, and repairs.


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  #1  
Old 12-20-2013, 12:07 PM
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philman philman is offline
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Backpack: MYOG Cuben, Osprey Atmos 65 AG
Sleeping Gear: MYOG Down Quilt, Enlightened Equipment Accomplice
Shelter: SMD Deschutes CF Tarp, SMD Lunar Duo
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Alton, Illinois
Posts: 99
Quilt / Sleeping Bag Materials

While I'm not yet finished with the Cuben pack, I'm researching various materials for a quilt or sleeping bag project. I'm wondering what everyone's thoughts are concerning fabrics and their interaction with the insulation used. I'm not even sure I understand all of the considerations that go into the selection!!! It would seem that breathable fabrics, when used as a liner material would allow body moisture to be transmitted to the down (which is the insulation I'm currently considering), thereby reducing it's effectiveness. Does a breathable outer fabric allow enough moisture to be transmitted out to prevent this? There has to be some trade-off with just how well the outer fabric breathes to allow lofting and moisture transmission yet shed rain spray and/or any condensation dropping from the shelter. Any thoughts on the best choices for each (liner and outer materials). I'm looking at the variants of Pertex, Momentum, Nobul, etc. and growing more confused by the minute! While I want to keep the weight to a minimum, I don't want to spend a fortune only to end up with something that doesn't perform well.

One other question: Assuming that enough breathable fabric is used to allow the down to loft, what are the disadvantages to using a non-breathable fabric such as standard Cuben (aside from it's cost and throwing out any durability questions)? I realize that it will act as a vabor-barrier but no moisture will be transmitted to the down, which seems like a good thing. So long as you allow for occasional venting, which I do anyway by throwing a leg out or whatever, is that a problem? If I were using such a quilt in say 20-30 degree temps and throwing a foot out now and then would it be an issue? Sounds like a silly question, I know, but again I really don't know much about this sort of thing. I don't want to end up like a frozen fish stick or in a pool of sweat!

I should add that, while I could just look for a good deal on a bag, I really enjoy making my own stuff and hope to save a few $$$ in the process. Just want to make sure I don't regret it in the long run.

HELP!!!
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  #2  
Old 12-21-2013, 10:26 PM
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dsuursoo dsuursoo is offline
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Backpack: Mountainsmith Maverick 65
Sleeping Gear: ALPS +20 mummy
Shelter: Kelty Noah 9x9
 
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unless you perspire heavily enough to count as a portable water supply i doubt the moisture from your body will really do any harm to a down bag or comforter. and even if that were the case i'd be more concerned about keeping everything UNDER you dry and warm.

your breath might be another thing in serious cold. don't totally cocoon up and tuck your head under the quilt.

using something like cuben for the bottom layer would keep your down totally dry from YOUR moisture, but leave you in a slowly growing(though tiny) puddle of sweat. this would be bad.

on the top layer, it'd be much the same thing.

so from this we can draw the conclusion that using a waterproof fabric is basically a bad idea.

honestly i'd use a tightly woven untreated nylon. it should keep off the odd drops of water nicely, yet breathe pretty well. unless you plan on racking out under the stars a lot, you don't need a waterproof layer on your quilt/bag(not to mention that even then it'd be bad for the same reasons as before). use it as both the inner and top layers and you'll save a TON of weight(at 1.1oz/sq yd). both layers will breathe just fine and you'll be comfy.

probably wouldn't need to throw your feet out, either.
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  #3  
Old 12-22-2013, 09:22 AM
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philman philman is offline
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Backpack: MYOG Cuben, Osprey Atmos 65 AG
Sleeping Gear: MYOG Down Quilt, Enlightened Equipment Accomplice
Shelter: SMD Deschutes CF Tarp, SMD Lunar Duo
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Alton, Illinois
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dsuursoo
honestly i'd use a tightly woven untreated nylon.

thanks for the response dsuursoo.

i had planned on using momentum M45 (untreated) for the liner and one of the treated variants of pertex or momentum as the outer (the kit has quantum, though i'm not yet sure which type). i've read various accounts of using cuben so before ordering materials i wanted to get some feed back.

for the purposes of a quilt or bag, i think the "plastic" feel of cuben would suck...like sleeping in wax paper. pertex and momentum are so light that the weight savings using cuben is negligible, even with the lightest variants. just curious. it became more about understanding why different materials are selected for liner/outer and what impact that has on the down. thanks for shedding some light on things.
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  #4  
Old 01-03-2014, 07:11 PM
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tonto tonto is offline
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Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 471
Slumber Satisfaction Step By Step

First off, I've never made any sort of sleeping bag.
But, it stands to reason that researching the materials used for bags already on the market is a good place to start.
Manufacturers of bags will state the materials they use.
If you need more details on material specs call the company.
Once you find a manufactured bag that suits your needs go online and check product reviews on performance.
Once your satisfied with good reviews go and replicate the product using the materials.

Or...

Skip the last step and buy the manufactured product on sale.
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  #5  
Old 01-04-2014, 03:28 PM
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philman philman is offline
Practical Backpacking­™ Forums Moderator
Backpack: MYOG Cuben, Osprey Atmos 65 AG
Sleeping Gear: MYOG Down Quilt, Enlightened Equipment Accomplice
Shelter: SMD Deschutes CF Tarp, SMD Lunar Duo
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Alton, Illinois
Posts: 99
Update #1:

Ordered the materials and they have since arrived. 12 oz. 900 fp down, 2 yds of nanoseeum and 2-1/2 yds each of Momentum M90 for the shell (1.1 oz/yd2 finished) and Momentum M45 for the liner (0.63 oz/yd2 finished). My plan was to use the M90 for a wind jacket or whatever and pick up 2-1/2 yds of Pertex Quantum GL or Nobul2 for the shell (both run about 0.75 oz/yd2 finished) but I have to say that, after actually handling the materials I've already received, I am TOTALLY freaked out! When I pulled the stuff out of the box my wife said it looked like cheap garbage bag material. You can see through it. It's so thin and slippery that I don't know if I have the skills yet to work with it. I picked up a walking foot thinking that may help but we'll see. More to follow...and here's hoping that its not all bad!

Update #2:

The cuben pack is nearing completion. Certainly not up to par with the finished cuben packs on the market but I think it'll do the trick. The 1.43 oz stuff is actually nice to work with. I'm anxious to see what the finished weight is and how it holds up. Pics coming soon!
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  #6  
Old 01-04-2014, 08:41 PM
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dsuursoo dsuursoo is offline
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Backpack: Mountainsmith Maverick 65
Sleeping Gear: ALPS +20 mummy
Shelter: Kelty Noah 9x9
 
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Posts: 1,482
walking foot, tons of pins, maybe some of that tailoring tape(light heat with iron makes it sticky).

and take it SLOW.
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  #7  
Old 02-24-2014, 05:11 PM
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striker striker is offline
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Backpack: Gregory Shasta, Gregory Jade 38
Sleeping Gear: MYOG down quilt
Shelter: Bilgy Tarp Tent
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: AZ
Posts: 35
I can relate to philman's comments about the fabrics! I am working on a pertex/momentum quilt right now and had the same feelings when I first saw the fabric! I have sewn most of the baffles on and I have to say that so far it isn't so bad. Much easier than sewing silnylon. I haven't needed a walking foot for either the silnylon or these new fabrics. I have found that if your sewing machine has a "low" or "slow" setting that this helps the fabric to feed evenly. I cut a small piece of each of the fabrics to mess around with including trying to poke through them, snag them, etc. I think they are much stronger than they feel.
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  #8  
Old 03-04-2014, 02:36 PM
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philman philman is offline
Practical Backpacking­™ Forums Moderator
Backpack: MYOG Cuben, Osprey Atmos 65 AG
Sleeping Gear: MYOG Down Quilt, Enlightened Equipment Accomplice
Shelter: SMD Deschutes CF Tarp, SMD Lunar Duo
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Alton, Illinois
Posts: 99
I did finally finish the quilt. And I agree with striker's comments. I tried out the walking foot and decided I didn't need it. Just took it slow. Wound up doing the tape thing as mentioned in my earlier post. For what it's worth, I used Pertex Quantum GL for the shell, Momentum 45 for the liner, nano-seeum mesh for the baffles and 9 oz. 900 fp down. There's 12" of non-snag hook & loop on either side of the bottom end to form a foot box (in conjunction with a draw cord). There's also a drawcord at the top to draw it in over the shoulders. No straps at this point. Finished weight is 15.4 oz. A 1oz/yd2 cuben dry sack added 0.6 oz. for a total weight of 1 lb. on the button. I tried it out overnight in the yard when it got down to 28 deg (measured inside my SMD Skyscape). I was fine with a base layer comparable to Pat Cap 3. I wouldn't want to go too much lower though! Pic is from the night before out in the open.


Last edited by philman : 03-04-2014 at 02:38 PM.
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  #9  
Old 03-04-2014, 03:24 PM
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Reality Reality is offline
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It looks amazing, philman.

By the way, did you experience any cold spots?

Reality
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  #10  
Old 03-04-2014, 04:05 PM
© 2006-2016 Practical Backpacking™ / All Rights Reserved
philman philman is offline
Practical Backpacking­™ Forums Moderator
Backpack: MYOG Cuben, Osprey Atmos 65 AG
Sleeping Gear: MYOG Down Quilt, Enlightened Equipment Accomplice
Shelter: SMD Deschutes CF Tarp, SMD Lunar Duo
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Alton, Illinois
Posts: 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reality
By the way, did you experience any cold spots?
Reality

Yep, my butt. My feet a bit as well. So, other than my feet, nothing that the quilt had much to do with I suppose. Though, since the baffles strictly run horizontally, I guess I should expect the down to start settling towards the bottom of each "tube" through the night. I had considered adding vertical baffles (between the horizontal ones) about 12" from each side...the length of the quilt, if that makes any sense...in hopes of keeping the down in place. Don't know yet if it's going to be that big of a deal. Hopefully I won't be experiencing temps below 30 too often! Kinda wishing I had gone with a down pad now. The Exped's a light pad but when you add in the weight and bulk of the 1/8" eva pad underneath I'm not sure I'm saving that much. And maybe my butt wouldn't be so cold! My buddy and I leave for two weeks on the AT in 30 days and, as much as I would like to put the quilt to the test, I'm really praying for NICE weather!
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