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Gear List The Gear List forum is the place to post your actual backpacking gear list, and to read what others have in their packs. Don't forget to specify weight.


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  #21  
Old 04-25-2011, 07:14 PM
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richwads richwads is offline
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It really is a challenge to decide what to take for a one year trip without resupply of anything at all. Maybe this isn't exactly what Reality had in mind, but it's fun to think about (and a little scary too). It's not what I was thinking about in my previous post. Here are a few rambling thoughts about this scenario:

Water treatment will be a very high priority. The only sustainable way, without chemicals or depending on a filter is boiling. Assuming one would light a fire to boil the water, he would have to use a match, a bic, flint and steel, a bow drill, or a magnesium fire starter. Bics don't last forever, the more primitive methods require that special tinder be found, stockpiled, and carried around. Drinking a couple liters a day would require boiling more than that, so a lot of time would be spent each day bringing water to a boil, then it must be stored. Plastic bladders can't be depended on indefinitely. It seems like the most effective way would be to carry a lot of clo2 tablets and a lot of waterproof matches, boiling water only when a cooking or warming fire is used. The ability to find flint and use a carbon steel knife as a striker may be useful, but using anything to catch the spark besides charcloth (a real pita to make in the field) means finding that special fungus Kochanski talks about. Making a bow drill would be easier, as its coal can ignite a tindler ball made of dry grass, shredded dead yucca leaves, juniper bark, dried spanish moss, etc., with no spark catcher required.

OK, water and fire problems solved, now the food problem. I suggest packing in only food that can be eaten without cooking or adding water, like trail mix and jerky - basically nuts, fruits and meat, a perfect paleo diet. One can't carry a year's supply, but a 22 rifle can kill anything from a mouse or bird to a deer, to supplement the packed in food. Browsing on any fresh vegetables in the vicinity will help balance the diet. Cooking utensils are minimized. Deer bladder and intestines can provide abo sandwich bags, and rib and leg bones can make many useful tools. Fishing can be fun, but willow cage traps are more effective than waiting for a fish to take your hook. I think more food (flora and fauna) will be available for those able to move lightly from place to place, staying in one place just long enough to process larger game (making jerky).

Basically the most comfortable sustainable survival lifestyle will be found using neolithic skills, i.e. living like the original natives of this beautiful country. In early May I'm attending a gathering of a few hundred teachers and students of these skills in northern California (the Buckeye Gathering) that will spend a week sharing and practicing these skills. Taking experiences like these into the woods is the most packable survival "equipment" available.
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  #22  
Old 04-25-2011, 10:20 PM
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SSDD SSDD is offline
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Water filtering is easy without boiling it, Like in my first post "DIY filter bag to make your own filter" now the bag would be filled with a 3 stage system of sand/dirt, charcoal and a grass/cloth and have 2-3 layers of that three stage design.

As for the nuts and such you would be better off with rice or beans and hunt and pick what you can find as you go to off set the rice or beans.
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  #23  
Old 04-25-2011, 11:23 PM
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dsuursoo dsuursoo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SSDD
Water filtering is easy without boiling it, Like in my first post "DIY filter bag to make your own filter" now the bag would be filled with a 3 stage system of sand/dirt, charcoal and a grass/cloth and have 2-3 layers of that three stage design.
for filtering that's pretty ideal. what about purification?

that's the tack we're getting at. water that you're certain is safe, that's the hard part.

as far as storage goes, if you're up to only storing a gallon at a time and will be using a sled/travois/pack-horse(not unreasonable), maybe a copper or brass tank?

turns out the copper and brass are pretty hostile to organisms. it'd keep your water contaminant free after you purify it.

paleo living, if you know how, really would be the ideal way if you were going to go a year with a bare minimum of conveniences. downsides include: it's WORK. you will spend most of your days dealing with food, fuel, hydration and the other issues of day to day existence. you're gonna be one busy puppy. it's easy to supplement with some modern tools that take entire sections of difficulty out of the equation. even just a steel knife would make life so much easier that your mind would be blow.

i dunno if i'd go full abo. i do like my modern tools and methods...

my, this IS a fun thought experiment.
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  #24  
Old 04-26-2011, 04:11 AM
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Ralph Ralph is offline
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FWIW: the things most desired by primitive people for which they will trade just about anything are a steel knife and axe, flashlight with batteries and bulbs and matches. Steel tools are much more efficient and less fragile than stone tools, the flashlight opens the night and firemaking by primitive means is a real nuisance. A few other items on the "highly desirable" list are needles and strong thread, fish hooks and wool blankets (lighter and more compact than furs).
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  #25  
Old 04-26-2011, 08:22 AM
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richwads richwads is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dsuursoo
for filtering that's pretty ideal. what about purification?

even just a steel knife would make life so much easier ....
i dunno if i'd go full abo. i do like my modern tools and methods...

my, this IS a fun thought experiment.

Exactly -Purification WAS my point.

Actually I wasn't trying to say to go full abo - I did after all suggest matches, purification tablets, rifle/ammo, etc. The abo skills thing, the point I was making there, is it's the lightest "weight" thing to also take along. Taking everything including the kitchen sink, and tools to repair them, would still be insecure, since even the tools would need to be backed up. Having the abo skills to slowly replace broken high tech things would be another life extension tool -(such as running out of thread and using plant fiber or sinew in a pinch, or when the air mattress goes flat making a tule mat or learning to efficiently make a browse bed, etc.) And to address SSDD's preference for rice and beans - you're gonna be spending a lotta time boiling water! How are rice and beans better than nuts and fruit nutritionally?


BTW Ralph - I love my steel knives and LED flashlights and they may be the most important parts of my gear list! I do use my home made stone knives for various things (being careful not to break them of course ). and knowing how to make an oil lamp that would burn animal fat (using a hollowed out rock and a floating moss wick) could extend the life of batteries quite a bit (abo candle lantern).

On the thought experiment thing, yes it's fun, but we can really play with bits and pieces of it "out there" too.
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  #26  
Old 04-26-2011, 08:52 AM
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richwads richwads is offline
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BTW, I agree on the metal pots for storage, after all you also need them to boil water (and render fat ), but I would probl'y take nesting ti, like a set of the Snow Peak 1400/ 900, which include pan lids and will nest the 700 mug/lid combo also. I'm not sure how spill proof they would be as far as being able to transport the water, however. Thinking about it, 1 or 2 stainless steel bottles would be right handy and reliable for storing and transporting (and even pasteurizing in a pinch).
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  #27  
Old 04-26-2011, 03:32 PM
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SSDD SSDD is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richwads
Exactly -Purification WAS my point.

Actually I wasn't trying to say to go full abo - I did after all suggest matches, purification tablets, rifle/ammo, etc. The abo skills thing, the point I was making there, is it's the lightest "weight" thing to also take along. Taking everything including the kitchen sink, and tools to repair them, would still be insecure, since even the tools would need to be backed up. Having the abo skills to slowly replace broken high tech things would be another life extension tool -(such as running out of thread and using plant fiber or sinew in a pinch, or when the air mattress goes flat making a tule mat or learning to efficiently make a browse bed, etc.) And to address SSDD's preference for rice and beans - you're gonna be spending a lotta time boiling water! How are rice and beans better than nuts and fruit nutritionally?



Water: That filter will take care of most anything you don't want in your water now I am not talking about using black nasty pond water but if thats all you have you will need to change out your filter material often or back flush it.

As for the nuts: I never said rice and beans are more nutritionally sound in any way as I know better than that, But I did say rice and beans would be "better" because they will last longer for the volume of what you can carry.

As aways knowledge trumps most things
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  #28  
Old 04-26-2011, 08:42 PM
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richwads richwads is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SSDD
Water: That filter will take care of most anything you don't want in your water now I am not talking about using black nasty pond water but if thats all you have you will need to change out your filter material often or back flush it.

As for the nuts: I never said rice and beans are more nutritionally sound in any way as I know better than that, But I did say rice and beans would be "better" because they will last longer for the volume of what you can carry.

As aways knowledge trumps most things
I'm sorry, I couldn't find the post that describes the filter, and assumed it was only a prefilter to process muddy water. You're saying it filters out all the nasty critters that a typical backpacking filter does?

Aahh, volume (did you say that?). I was thinking weight. A pound of trail mix has 2250 calories, a pound of rice has 1600, a pound of pinto beans has 1440. This is from package labels, multiplying calories per serving by servings per pound. You may end up with a smaller pack, but mine will be lighter .

Anyway, if we meet on the trail, we can round out our diets by exchanging some rice and beans for trail mix!
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  #29  
Old 04-26-2011, 09:15 PM
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SSDD SSDD is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richwads
I'm sorry, I couldn't find the post that describes the filter, and assumed it was only a prefilter to process muddy water. You're saying it filters out all the nasty critters that a typical backpacking filter does?

Aahh, volume (did you say that?). I was thinking weight. A pound of trail mix has 2250 calories, a pound of rice has 1600, a pound of pinto beans has 1440. This is from package labels, multiplying calories per serving by servings per pound. You may end up with a smaller pack, but mine will be lighter .

Anyway, if we meet on the trail, we can round out our diets by exchanging some rice and beans for trail mix!



Most of my trips I have butter toffee pea nuts or a mix of nuts but in a expedition/survial type situation I would rather have rice or beans as they will last longer by filling you up faster and supplement it with hunting/trapping or fishing. You see I would eat the nuts way too fast and then be



Yes the filter will take care of the nasties if you do it right. Now you can plan ahead and get carbon charcoal from a pet store in the fish tank filters area in the type of fill your own filters. Also you can use the media/cloth part of the filter to help prefilter.
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  #30  
Old 05-07-2011, 08:58 PM
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Hanr3 Hanr3 is offline
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9" Bowie Knife

Edible wild plants guide.

Box of strike anywhere matches in a plastic bag.

Map & Compass

Tarp

100' of paracord

I could get by with just the Bowie knife, but hey, I figured why make it tough on myself.
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