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Fishing & Hunting The Fishing & Hunting forum is for discussion (on-site content) that directly relates to wilderness fishing and hunting with an emphasis on engaging in these activities while on backpacking trips. Lightweight/packable gear, personal experience/technique, and trip reports are of central focus. [Reminder: PBF is for actual content, not links/reference to offsite content.]


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  #21  
Old 02-07-2010, 11:00 AM
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dsuursoo dsuursoo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richwads

"Ignition problems may result if pistol primers are used, unless the powder is held against the flash hole with a light paper wad. With the stronger rifle primers no ignition difficulties were experienced with charges as low as 0.7 gr. of Bullseye loose in 7x57 mm. cases. Rifle primers were used in all our tests and the added step of positioning the powder was eliminated."

figured it was hardly a new trick.

yeah, i think the main issue was with the primers they're allowed by competition to use(i think there's a restriction to pistol-non-magnum-non rifle primers), combined with the jerky shooting style and the fast draws, that leads them to use it.

i don't think it would add tons of consistency to our situation, as we can use a fluffy powder to alleviate the effect.

it does give me an excuse to go playing, once i get some handloading gear(holding off on that for now... maybe by hunting season.).

wonder if there's any smith out there willing to do custom loads, or if they've gone the way of the brontosaurus...
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  #22  
Old 02-07-2010, 11:45 AM
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richwads richwads is offline
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Check out the Lee Loader. It's slower than a bench mounted press, but my buddy and my brother-in-law used one exclusively. Lee also has a kit of various sized powder scoops with a table for all the powders, that I found very useful. Weighing every charge or using a powder measure is overkill for reduced loads.
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  #23  
Old 02-07-2010, 01:27 PM
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dsuursoo dsuursoo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richwads
Check out the Lee Loader. It's slower than a bench mounted press, but my buddy and my brother-in-law used one exclusively. Lee also has a kit of various sized powder scoops with a table for all the powders, that I found very useful. Weighing every charge or using a powder measure is overkill for reduced loads.

those clever midwesterners...

here i thought the only apartment friendly option was lee's hand press. but reading up on the loader, there are some real positives to using it. one reviewer got better consistency with his seating, and found it pretty easy to use. and apparently it wasn't any slower than a single-hole press.

sure it's no progressive auto press, but that can wait a few years now!
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  #24  
Old 02-08-2010, 11:37 PM
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MoondogFiftyfive MoondogFiftyfive is offline
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VERY NICE, love the wood work.
I'm still using my RCBS "Rockchucker" slow but effective.
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  #25  
Old 02-09-2010, 09:42 AM
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dsuursoo dsuursoo is offline
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everyone i've known with a rockchucker loves them.

on loading: i'm thinking i'll try the 4198 load, but i came across a load calling for 14-19gr. of trail boss topped with a 130gr soft point hornady. clocks in between 1300 and 1500 fps, which keeps muzzle energy below about 700Flbs even at max load. that is actually low enough that i don't think even a soft point would expand all that much.

i'd probably need to re-dial my zero for small game, but if i make a note of how many clicks difference, then i should be okay. and there's no reason i can't swap to a lighter bullet, say, 100-110 grains. that'll bring velocity back up, though impact energy will stay the same, or close to it.
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  #26  
Old 02-09-2010, 01:06 PM
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MoondogFiftyfive MoondogFiftyfive is offline
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If my experience with REM6mm is anything close, small game like rabbits and hares hit with such a high speed bullet is uneatable, the body simply blows into small bits.
Fun shooting vermin but even if rabbits are vermin over here I like to eat bunny and for long shots at goats I would stick to the heaviest bullet weights as they suffer less from deflection problems and wind.
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  #27  
Old 02-09-2010, 01:55 PM
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dsuursoo dsuursoo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MoondogFiftyfive
If my experience with REM6mm is anything close, small game like rabbits and hares hit with such a high speed bullet is uneatable, the body simply blows into small bits.
Fun shooting vermin but even if rabbits are vermin over here I like to eat bunny and for long shots at goats I would stick to the heaviest bullet weights as they suffer less from deflection problems and wind.


agreed. the good thing about the trail boss loading is that it's such a high volume powder that i can't physically put much more than 20 grains in the casing, which would give me maybe 1800 fps if i'm lucky. with that loading the .270 has about 1/3 its typical energy, so with a slow expanding bullet like a soft point, it'd drop them without destroying them.

the other thought is to use a lightweight bullet like a 100 grain, using a non-expanding bullet(say a homogenous brass round). that superfast round would just go zippity on through the animal. the danger in this is that there might not be any killing injury. this is an effect i've noticed with sub-quarter caliber high velocity rounds on medium game(and why super-expanding bullets were developed).

so the big fat 130-140 grain soft point poking along at a stodgy 1300-1400 fps sounds pretty effective. big weight, big impact, plenty of shock, but no rabbit go asplodey(hopefully. first round in actual usage will tell).
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  #28  
Old 02-09-2010, 03:12 PM
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richwads richwads is offline
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My limited experience on small game with the 1800 fps 110 gr .270 was on grey squirrel head shots, so I dunno about the body exploding question. The head didn't explode anyway , just a nice hole in and out.

But, the hydrostatic shock of such a supersonic slug through a body cavity might be different - though a bullet designed for 3000+ fps would not expand at under 2000.

I've shot many rabbits with a .30-30 download of 5 gr. Uniique and 110 gr Speer hollowpoint (broad nose for tube magazine) at an estimated 1200 fps, with no unusual destruction whatsoever. Not a tack-driver, and a loopy trajectory, but gud enuf fer 25 yd shots.

BTW, I read up on that Trail Boss powder - good call! I believe I would start with that, and use full size 130 gr slugs as you suggest, to keep velocity down and eliminate expansion. The trick will be to match point of aim to minimize scope adjustment. Counting clicks is OK, but in the field there's the "let's see, did I go CW or CCW?" factor. And I found myself switching ammo and scope settings often enough to forget what I did last. Also, put a spot of fingernail polish on the headstamp of reduced loads so you know what's in the chamber. Reduced .270 loads with spitzers look amazingly similar to full loads .
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  #29  
Old 02-09-2010, 08:37 PM
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MoondogFiftyfive MoondogFiftyfive is offline
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1000MPS and a hollow point vermin bullet = rapid expansion no matter where the bunny is hit.

i use 308WIN/ 7.62NATO for my deer rifle ( #4 Longbranch Lee-Enfield BA with the sniper conversion ) admitted the barrel is far too long for a scrub rifle but I hate to waste a classic, anyway I am now using the hollow point 168grain at around 2700FPS and find that too blows bunnies apart
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  #30  
Old 02-09-2010, 09:04 PM
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richwads richwads is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MoondogFiftyfive
1000MPS and a hollow point vermin bullet = rapid expansion no matter where the bunny is hit.

i use 308WIN/ 7.62NATO for my deer rifle ( #4 Longbranch Lee-Enfield BA with the sniper conversion ) admitted the barrel is far too long for a scrub rifle but I hate to waste a classic, anyway I am now using the hollow point 168grain at around 2700FPS and find that too blows bunnies apart

Not sure I follow - a hollow point designed to expand at 2500 fps (as the Speer .30 bullet I mentioned is) won't expand at 1200 fps, much less at the 1000 fps you mention. I've eaten many tasty bunnies dropped with no meat damage (except a 30 caliber hole) to prove that.

Your example of a hollow point at 2700 fps isn't what I'm talking about. Even a spitzer should expand at that velocity. The only thing that won't is a full metal jacket or solid.

A hunting bullet is designed to expand at velocities normal for that cartridge. Otherwise, a bullet designed to expand at say 1200-1500 fps will virtually explode at say 2900 fps, destroying meat but not penetrating. The design includes lead hardness, jacket design, tip shape, and many other variables, test shot at design velocities at suitable media, prior to even putting the bullet on the market.

Any hunting bullet, spitzer or softpoint or hollowpoint, shot at half of its designed muzzle velocity, will penetrate with minimal or no expansion whatsoever.

Of course, I look forward to being proven wrong, as I shudder to think I've been carrying around misinformation for the last 35 years , and it's never too late to be corrected.
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