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Fishing & Hunting The Fishing & Hunting forum is for discussion (on-site content) that directly relates to wilderness fishing and hunting with an emphasis on engaging in these activities while on backpacking trips. Lightweight/packable gear, personal experience/technique, and trip reports are of central focus. [Reminder: PBF is for actual content, not links/reference to offsite content.]


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  #11  
Old 09-28-2010, 06:51 PM
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Benwaller Benwaller is offline
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I would recommend the Marlin 39A, if you can find one. It's certainly a rifle to grow old with. Incomparable. Some might say it's a lot of money for a .22, but they'd be wrong.

Another good rifle to consider, again if you can find one, is the old Savage 24 over-and-under. That was my first gun, single-shot, .22 lr on top and .410 on the bottom; perfect gun for a kid. The 39A was my second. Both are in the possession of grandchildren now, having passed through my hands to their mothers' and so it goes.

As for the debate, well, please don't take this the wrong way but the way I see it there ain't no debate about it; no child's first gun should be an autoloader, no how and never. To me it really is just that simple and there just is no way of not saying it.

No offense intended.

Ben
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  #12  
Old 09-29-2010, 01:09 AM
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dsuursoo dsuursoo is offline
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see, this is where i'm really torn. i and my sibs, all around six or so, learned on a semi-auto. the first few shots it was one round at a time. it had a hold-back on the bolt, so it was no hassle for dad to load one round, release the bolt and hand it to us.

the next few rounds we'd have between three and five, and he'd count with us to shoot.

we'd actually get through a 50-round box this way. it's very slow, very deliberate, and the auto loading lets the student shooter focus ONLY on things like sight picture, safe posture/aiming, and trigger pull.

it was only after that that my dad started teaching us about working the action on the bolt action .22, or loading/chambering on the semi-auto, and all that other more complicated stuff.

but, there are good points to not teaching with a semi-auto. the child isn't going to be able to go banging away, ever, which is a strong point. it's pretty easy to tell if the gun's cocked, which a semi-auto doesn't always have(almost never in fact in .22).

i'm still sold on the ar-7(actually it's now the 'Henry Survival Rifle'), and i want to get one in the spring - rabbit and squirrel are year round here with no bag limits - but as the boy won't be getting safety training let alone range time till probably next fall(and that's optimistic, it depends on him), i can hold off on what to do for a kid's gun for longer.

i've heard a lot of good things about the davy crikett rifles. they're these beautifully made single shot bolt actions. affordable, american made, and apparently great first guns. might be a good excuse to drive down to cabela's and take one for a spin.
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  #13  
Old 09-29-2010, 06:17 PM
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Benwaller Benwaller is offline
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Since we're on the subject of firearms training let me suggest a lesson.

The destructive effect of gunshot is the first lesson that must be taught.

The way I taught this was to take the kid and his/her rifle (sons and daughters, no discrimination in our house) out into the boonies a couple of hours north of here to a small creek. Going out with dad with your own rifle for the first time is a big deal for a kid. Anyway, the creek there forms a small pool, maybe 5-6' deep and roughly 20' in diameter and from the approach, which is open, it is backed by a soft blue-clay bank.

I would then sit us down on a log and break out the sandwiches. Toward the end of the lunch I'd initiate a discussion about the water content of the human body, just like that pool there, I'd say and of course our children were old enough by that age to have already learned about this human water miracle in school so the discussion was never one-sided; children love to show you what they know.

Then I would put in my ear plugs and the kid would do the same and I'd shoulder my 30-30, take aim right at the center of that pool of water, and say "it is a bad practice generally to fire at any body of water so don't do it, but this is what happens to the human body when a bullet hits it and you need to understand the concept and that's what you're gonna' learn right now" and pull the trigger. And the spray would rise 30' into the air and a large hole would remain in the water long enough to convey the message completely.

There was no danger of ricochet if that's what you're thinking. I am not a stupid man, nor do I tolerate criticism of my methods well. Fair enough.

After that the technical training began. I know that the result of that water demonstration, and the subsequent formal range training and hunting with us formed our children into competent and safe riflemen and that, because of the visceral understanding that they gained from that water demonstration, they are very likely to ensure that their own children also receive that proper and necessary education.

It is true that a picture is worth way more than a thousand words; it is as important to understand that theory just isn't enough.

Ben
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  #14  
Old 09-30-2010, 12:57 AM
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dsuursoo dsuursoo is offline
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though we might be veering off topic, i was planning something similar, but with a jug of water and my .270. safer conditions, etc. also a somewhat more... spectacular result.

referring to previous: the savage 24 looks like a great gun. similar to the m-6 over-under in so many ways, cept it doesn't break down. nor float.

i'll be honest, something like the M-6 or one of the similar over-unders is a serious option for me to consider, especially for a packable .22.

of course, there's not a ton of availability for them...
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  #15  
Old 09-30-2010, 03:30 AM
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Ralph Ralph is offline
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The AR-7 floats but the M-6, being solid steel, doesn't. The Savage 24 series all take-down, similar to an over-under shotgun: stock & receiver, barrel & forend. While the 24 isn't in current production there are a lot of them on the used market. One of the best, IMO, is the 24C, called the Camper model. This has a straight grip, 20" barrels and is chambered in .22LR and 20ga.

If you have lots of money, Marble's is reintroducing a new version of the Game Getter .22LR/.410 over/under - for about $2,000. Rather than the 12" barrels of the original, the new version has 18" barrels to conform to existing law.

Last edited by Ralph : 09-30-2010 at 03:41 AM.
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  #16  
Old 09-30-2010, 09:36 AM
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dsuursoo dsuursoo is offline
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two grand? ouch. heard good things about the marble, but man.

haven't seen all that many 24s, but i'll keep my eyes open. they might not have been that popular up here, that or they're being held onto by their owners.

at a retail of $225 or so, the henry is pretty dang affordable. some places go lower.
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  #17  
Old 09-30-2010, 06:17 PM
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Benwaller Benwaller is offline
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The 24 is no longer legal to sell in California because it can be broken into pieces without aid of tools.

Bummer days. Sure is great we've got shepherds watching over us all, all the time. Well, most of the time. Makes me feel warm and cozy all over.

We all need somebody to make us safe, right? I wonder if anybody else is as sick of hearing that line as I am.

Pretty likely I reckon.

Ben
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  #18  
Old 10-31-2010, 08:18 PM
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Ralph Ralph is offline
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FWW: I was curious about that 16 oz. .22 Pak Rifle and poked around looking for it. Seems they went belly up. Cute idea but the $425 price tag was just too much for what you were getting.
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  #19  
Old 01-02-2011, 08:48 AM
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Ralph Ralph is offline
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Don't overlook the possibility of rebuilding an older rifle. My first major gunsmithing project was in the mid '50s, when I was 16. I came across a small no-name take-down rolling block .22LR octagonal barrel single-shot in a junk shop (gun sales were a lot more casual then). This was a "boy's rifle" and cost, as I recall, about $8. The bore was pretty grubby, the original blue aged to gray, and a chip was off the toe of the stock - but it had promise.

I ordered a barrel liner and had an 18" rod welded to a twist drill of the right size, bored out the barrel and inserted the liner with the then-new epoxy glue and let it cure overnight. I trimmed the barrel to 16.5" and hand cut the dovetail to re-install the front sight. I bore-sighted it to tap the front sight to the right position. I trued up the chip in the stock and glued on a scrap of walnut with waterproof glue, reshaped the toe and sanded down all the wood. The wood was finished with Linspeed. I left the barrelled action and buttplate in the original gray. When I test-fired it the action was sound and the rifle quite accurate - half-inch groups at 75' as I recall. I sewed up a two-pocket case from canvas and carried that little rifle for years. I don't recall what I did with it, probably gave it to someone when I could afford a "better" .22. I'm sorry I didn't keep it.
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  #20  
Old 01-02-2011, 09:44 PM
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dsuursoo dsuursoo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph
Don't overlook the possibility of rebuilding an older rifle. My first major gunsmithing project was in the mid '50s, when I was 16. I came across a small no-name take-down rolling block .22LR octagonal barrel single-shot in a junk shop (gun sales were a lot more casual then). This was a "boy's rifle" and cost, as I recall, about $8. The bore was pretty grubby, the original blue aged to gray, and a chip was off the toe of the stock - but it had promise.

I ordered a barrel liner and had an 18" rod welded to a twist drill of the right size, bored out the barrel and inserted the liner with the then-new epoxy glue and let it cure overnight. I trimmed the barrel to 16.5" and hand cut the dovetail to re-install the front sight. I bore-sighted it to tap the front sight to the right position. I trued up the chip in the stock and glued on a scrap of walnut with waterproof glue, reshaped the toe and sanded down all the wood. The wood was finished with Linspeed. I left the barrelled action and buttplate in the original gray. When I test-fired it the action was sound and the rifle quite accurate - half-inch groups at 75' as I recall. I sewed up a two-pocket case from canvas and carried that little rifle for years. I don't recall what I did with it, probably gave it to someone when I could afford a "better" .22. I'm sorry I didn't keep it.

i've strongly considered doing that to my .270 in a few years, once i've shot it out.

that or get something that's really marginal and build myself a nice custom job.

trouble is, nowadays, that the cost would be identical to buying new, maybe even greater. it's a tough trade-off.
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